Mazda kf-ze 2.0l v6

Post subject: DM engine option: Mazda KF-ZE 2.0 V6?

The KF-ZE is just under 2 liters and thus Dmod legal but I wonder how much that sucker weighs. Being a V6 would it have a more favorable torque curve than that of an inline four? Would it even be possible to mount it in RWD configuration? Is this a rediculous notion since these engines are made to be mounted transversely?

Here's on on Ebay. Looks big and messy.

I'm just brainstorming here for DM engine options and thought I'd throw this one out there.

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Post subject:

There is a MAYPO on miata.net that installed a KL in his miata.

Details:
http://majica.net/JNR/here.htm

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R ('70s mazda pickup)
http://www.vsusp.com
ford IFS cheap viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Frame L x cockpit W x eng bay HT (w/o hood/bonnet/cowl)
Lotus Super Seven: 115 (no spare) x39x7.25
Tiger Avon: 114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion (Book): 114x42x11
Gibbs Haynes: 122x42x14
Voo Doo: 113x44x14
McSorley “442”122x46x14
Collins “241” 127x46x12

Post subject:

Thanks for the link. That thing sounds sweet IMHO.

I'll bet you could eek out even more than the rated 170 horsepower in a Locost with long tube headers, but enough to make it worthwhile?

He had to mate a Gen2 RX7 bellhousing to the Miata tranny and make a custom adapter plate. Doesn't look like fun. http://majica.net/JNR/major.htm

By the time it's all said and done the extra expense of projects like this would probably add up to the cost of a K20 eh?

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Post subject:

Post subject:

The trans is a hybrid so he could retain the ppf. If the engine is rolled over in it's normal orientation by rotating the trans, the pan mods probably would nto be required either. That just leaves the block and crank adapters. Of course, if your going to all this trouble, why not use the rotary?

I think even a MX3 1.8L-v6 based middy would be a lot of fun.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R ('70s mazda pickup)
http://www.vsusp.com
ford IFS cheap viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Frame L x cockpit W x eng bay HT (w/o hood/bonnet/cowl)
Lotus Super Seven: 115 (no spare) x39x7.25
Tiger Avon: 114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion (Book): 114x42x11
Gibbs Haynes: 122x42x14
Voo Doo: 113x44x14
McSorley “442”122x46x14
Collins “241” 127x46x12

Post subject:

Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:

The trans is a hybrid so he could retain the ppf. If the engine is rolled over in it's normal orientation by rotating the trans, the pan mods probably would nto be required either. That just leaves the block and crank adapters. Of course, if your going to all this trouble, why not use the rotary?

I think even a MX3 1.8L-v6 based middy would be a lot of fun.

Rotary puts you in EM. The only reason I considered it is that I was just looking at all the 2 liter naturally aspirated engine options and this one looked both unique and potentially competitive. It's also cheaper than the other popular options.

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Post subject:

chetcpo wrote:

Rotary puts you in EM. The only reason I considered it is that I was just looking at all the 2 liter naturally aspirated engine options and this one looked both unique and potentially competitive. It's also cheaper than the other popular options.

Not true. Both 12A and 13B Rotary engines are allowed in DM with some porting restrictions.

Here's the part of section 18.1.D that mentions minimum weights based on engine displacement.

D. Minimum Weights
1. Weight vs. Displacement
All listed minimum weights are with driver.

DM
Piston engines up to & including 1800 cc 1280 lbs.
12A rotary engines w/ porting restriction 1280 lbs.
Piston engines 1801 to 2000 cc 1380 lbs.
13B rotary engines w/ porting restriction 1380 lbs.

EM
Piston engines up to & including 3200 cc OHC
1700 lbs.
Piston engines up to & including
4500 cc pushrod/OHV 1700 lbs.
2-rotor rotary engines w/ unrestricted porting 1700 lbs.
Piston engines unlimited displacement 1800 lbs.
3-rotor rotary engines w/ unrestricted porting 1800 lbs.

Of course you may just not WANT to run a rotary. I know that I don't.

Post subject:

Thanks for the clarification. I have nothing against rotaries other than the ungodly noise.

I will have to add the 13B to my list of potential engine candidates. I probably won't be swapping my 1.6 out until this time next year or maybe even later.

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Post subject:

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Not a member of that group so It doesn't come up.

Besides keeping the sump covered, The issue would be oil drain back from the heads to the pan. External drains could be used or the engine kept in the same orientation by rotating the trans.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R ('70s mazda pickup)
http://www.vsusp.com
ford IFS cheap viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Frame L x cockpit W x eng bay HT (w/o hood/bonnet/cowl)
Lotus Super Seven: 115 (no spare) x39x7.25
Tiger Avon: 114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion (Book): 114x42x11
Gibbs Haynes: 122x42x14
Voo Doo: 113x44x14
McSorley “442”122x46x14
Collins “241” 127x46x12

Post subject:

Hi Chet...

I looked at that perticular engine 4 years ago... It fits without any issues, it's small and light. The pictures make it a lot worse. A few of my buddies run Probes and MX3's in Solo 1 and 2... yes they do have some oiling issues.. i.e. Blow ups.. Plan on changing engine often... Plus the valve train need to be beefed up if your gonna rev the little thing.

The oiling issue stems from the fact that the engine was design to work transversely, plus the oil pressure is weak on one of the bearing. They can be made to work... dry Sump will take care of it $$$$$$

If your looking for a not too expensive D mod engine, the S2000 engine is hard to beat... All the other are gonna cost you a lot more to get that much power ( 240).

Mind you I still don't think that you need that much...And I put my money were my mouth is... Will be at Topeka in 2008 with a locost... It will be powered by a Toyota 3TC putting out about 150HP... It's big torque monster, but they will be the Tranny... 1st is really long...

Post subject:

Jawfish wrote:

Hi Chet...

I looked at that perticular engine 4 years ago... It fits without any issues, it's small and light. The pictures make it a lot worse. A few of my buddies run Probes and MX3's in Solo 1 and 2... yes they do have some oiling issues.. i.e. Blow ups.. Plan on changing engine often... Plus the valve train need to be beefed up if your gonna rev the little thing.

The oiling issue stems from the fact that the engine was design to work transversely, plus the oil pressure is weak on one of the bearing. They can be made to work... dry Sump will take care of it $$$$$$

If your looking for a not too expensive D mod engine, the S2000 engine is hard to beat... All the other are gonna cost you a lot more to get that much power ( 240).

Mind you I still don't think that you need that much...And I put my money were my mouth is... Will be at Topeka in 2008 with a locost... It will be powered by a Toyota 3TC putting out about 150HP... It's big torque monster, but they will be the Tranny... 1st is really long...

Thanks I can hardly wait to see how you fair. I'll be pulling for you.

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Post subject:

Thanks.

Hope not to finish DFL

Seriously were going there to see how some of our ideas do... Our first two cars althought not street legal, are not pure dedicated Solo 2 cars so I'm expect to be lower mid pack.

We do have plans to build a pure dedicated solo 2 car... But thats another story or a new tread:wink:

Fred

Post subject:

If it is a issue even in the stock fwd config, a spring loaded piston accumulator would maintain pressure in the curves when the sump becomes uncovered. I believe those cost around $200.

Valve train issues can be from a large number of things, including over revving and maintenance.

Oil pressure is a balancing act. The bearings that are first to receive pressure on startup can be slightly restricted to provide more pressure sooner to the weak bearing. At operating temp, the weak point will have a more balanced flow compared to the other bearings.

The overall pressure can be increased by shimming the bypass spring in the oil pump.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R ('70s mazda pickup)
http://www.vsusp.com
ford IFS cheap viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Frame L x cockpit W x eng bay HT (w/o hood/bonnet/cowl)
Lotus Super Seven: 115 (no spare) x39x7.25
Tiger Avon: 114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion (Book): 114x42x11
Gibbs Haynes: 122x42x14
Voo Doo: 113x44x14
McSorley “442”122x46x14
Collins “241” 127x46x12

Post subject:

Agreed they can be fixed...

Valvetrain has been to upgrade the springs and change the retainers... This has worked good... Keep in mind that in racing you spend most of your time in the upper rev range.

One thing to remember, is that the 2.0L is not sold in N.A. it's a pure JDM. Aftermarket parts are an issue on the 2.5... I would expect things worst for the 2.0...

In all honesty the top cars seems to be in the 230-300 HP range...Thats a lot of HP to build up... I know that Prodrive did have one of those engine making 250+HP in their Contours in the BTCC, but they had destroke a 2.5L to 2.0l changed the firing order...I don't want even imagine how much one of those engine would cost...

Hey if money is no object get a Judd K2000... you get 250HP in a 75KG(165lbs) engine... At 30,000$ it's a bit pricey for me.

Thats why I think the Honda's K20 and F20 are the engine of the future for that class. Even the Ford/Mazda 2.0L aren't close.

But the engine is only one component of the car... The Tranny is were some gains can be made...Stock tranny is not going to cut it. There's a lot of untap potential there. Suspension components are another area to work with. Forget Pinto... forget fiero... Think mini legend or even custom...Unsprung weight must be at the minimum... all other components must be made for 30-180 sec run... no more... add weight to the floor... ( I'm thinking 14 gauge steel floor or even thicker...) You need to centralise all the masses, offset the engine/tranny... Plus the new fastrack has indicated what could be done for the front splitter. Try t get the Center of Gravity as low as possible, start with the engine and tranny... You'll need to think dry-sump..

Fred

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